Danni: I like the originial Donnie Darko, not the Director's cut. The whole movie is overrated though.Erin: I have the director's cut, I like it because it explains a lot more than the original does. Why do you feel it's overrated?
Danni: I feel that the vast majority of people that watch the movie don't get what's going on (and you wouldn't without watching the director's commentary), which I think is a lame way of going about making movies. It just tries so hard to be something it's not. The vast majority of it's "cult" following is due to it's status as an "intellectual cult film", nothing more.
Erin: Mm. I think I was obsessed with the movie for awhile, but probably because it was a "cult" movie. I like those...weird, obscure, hard to understand what's going on. My 2 fave tv shows (X-Files and Buffy) fit that realm too,but I think the writers did a better job of explaining).
It is kind of a bad way to go about the movie - and frankly, I find the director's cut a little boring. I guessed what was going on before I saw it, but I had to watch it several times before it clicked. And even with the director's cut I'm not sure I understand the point of it all. What, for example, was the point of Grandma Death? Was she, like Donnie, a time traveler? I know that she wrote that once science book and all, but seriously? She's in the plot for that and that alone?
I like it for the same reason I like Frankenstein: No actual draw to the plotline or any of the characters, I just like to debate theories about what's actually going on.
It's also a little existentialist - don't you think? You get to the end of the movie to find out that the entire point was that Donnie was supposed to die. One has to wonder - what was the point?
I get what you say about the vast majority of the people watching it not understanding it, though. My dad did that. He got about 1/2 through and turned it off because it was depressing.
A lot of people are like that -liking things only because of what they symbolize as opposed to what they really mean. I think that's where a lot of stereotypes become accurate. But idk.
Also, wouldn't the world technically have been better with Donnie alive? He exposed a lot of injustices in the world. It's sort of like what they were discussing with Watership Down (I think? Idk)
Danni: I've watched that movie about 2938572304986 times and I still don't really see a point. Maybe there wasn't one (check one for extistentialism!).
Grandma Death, I always thought was the real, true Frank, essentially. Her book guided Donnie (and Frank guided Donnie to Grandma Death for this purpose).
I was mostly curious about Cherita Chen, though. I never understood her purpose. I thought maybe she was Donnie's angel or something, since she was the angel is the talent show, she loved him, they had this special connection throughout the entire film (he stood up for her, he told her, "I promise, that one day, everything's going to be better for you.") I don't know. But even if she was, she didn't save him (very un-angelic don't you think?), she didn't do anything in general. She just kind of stood around all day. (point of angels = nothing? Check two for existentialism).
Really, nothing in the movie mattered at all, particularly Donnie's efforts to save mankind, because in one version it was all a dream and in the other he got smooshed by a jet engine. Existentialist movie? Sure, why not.
Erin: 1. Me either. Seen it way too many times to count...I have never watched a film so pointless. I mean, even Towelhead - as horrible and horrific as it was - had a point. This was just like..."What?"
2. Ah, good point. I was beginning to wonder if maybe it was Gretchen. She does show up around the same time as Frank, and seems to work as a catalyst for Donnie.
3. Hm, I never thought about that before. I just kind of felt sorry for her because, as you point out, she doesn't seem to serve a purpose. I think maybe this entire thing would work better as a book because then characters like her wouldn't be as left out for time limit (or whatever other strange reasons).
4. Wait, in which version was it all a dream? I must have never seen the original, because I don't remember an ending that didn't involve Donnie being smooshed by jet engine. Just that it was considered a dream to everyone else.Although what would serve the point of making an existentialist movie? And if we're going to make an existentialist movie, why make it a depressing one in which the main character is obfuscating schizophrenia? Why not have it just be another version of Alice in Wonderland (in my own mind, THAT is also existentialist, and I think people are just trying to make sense of nonsense, but YMMV)?
Danni: Gummo was the most pointless film I've ever seen in all my life. My old Lion King Sing-a-long tapes were more useful than that (though, Gummo wasn't a bad movie).
I thought Gretchen was the Deus ex Machina since Donnie repeats "Deus ex machina" over and over and Gretchen finally gets run over and the hoodlums scram. So, maybe she is the angel after all.
Yeah, I felt horrible for Cherita as well. She always bugged me though because she was ALWAYS around... and for what? Someone to poke fun of?
The original Donnie Darko I think... or does Mad World play, Donnie wakes up, starts laughing and THEN the Jet engine smooshes him? Maybe it was just an alternate ending I watched as a special feature on one of the DVDs. But I know in one, he doesn't die.
Isn't existentialism a depressing philosophy all together? Even Alice in Wonderland is somewhat depressing. I think a happy existentialist movie wouldn't make much sense, considering it's a very apathetic idea. Apathy and happiness don't really go too well together, but that's just from my own experience. Other people may be perfectly happy apathetics.
As for the point I missed above, I think the world wouldn't be any different with or without Donnie. Especially if you want to look at it from an existentialist perspective.
Erin: Gummo? What is Gummo about? And ah, the Lion King...the best cartoon of the 90s, perhaps. And you can learn a lot from the Lion King! The Circle of Life = energy never dies, just goes from one thing to the next.
Hm. I didn't think of that. I kind of forgot what the Deus ex Machina was...I wanted someone to slug those two guys, all they ever did was cause pointless trouble. But then again, the movie may have been more interesting from their points of view - or, for that matter, Cherita's.
I don't know, I just know that all the times I've seen it (to my knowledge; it has, after all, been 3 years since the last time I saw it), it has ended with Donnie being hit by the jet engine, "Mad World" playing, and everybody waking up as if from a very bad dream. And the family standing outside as Gretchen goes by (she stops to ask some kid what happened).
It is, though I love it. It's so nice (sarcasm). And true, even Alice in Wonderland is depressing. But at least it's got some fun, zany characters - even if they are all insane, kind of cruel and sadistic, and very unhelpful. It's kind of a creepy story, in a way, but it has some fun bits to it. And it also at least has a very clear point and journey: Alice is trying to get home (I guess that's debatable) and exploring along the way. Alice in Wonderland is also kind of about an alternate universe...
I have met people who are happy apathetics, but I personally don't understand how they're happy being that way.
True; from an existentialist's point of view, Donnie has no significance. But I still don't see any point in his death. Who's to say that his death ensures his mothers, his sisters, Frank's, or Gretchen's survival? Gretchen's father is insane, and we know at the end of the movie he's come back. She probably would have died anyway, and more brutally than being run over by a car (honestly, though, who gets attacked by some hoodlems and then just lays in the middle of the road?); Frank and friends were already going along the route of grandma death. The Hoodlems could have seen them as a threat and shot Frank and his friend anyway. His younger sister, at least, would have wound up on that same trip anyway. Sparkle Motion's going to competition is not dependent on the perv's house being burnt down by her brother. And Donnie's death does not mean that storm will go away. The storm will still be there. It has to be, because otherwise the events of the movie would never have happened in the first place; Donnie would not have died.
I personally like a theory I found that says that the Frank Donnie is seeing is Dead Frank, who is ensuring that the events of the movie happening. I'm not quite sure why I like this theory though.
**and wow my opinion flip-flops too much...I agree with Danni. I like the movie in general and the director's cut because it explains; at the same time I think the director's cut is boring because it explains *too much*.
Danni: Gummo is just an hour or so of watching kids run around some desolate town in Ohio, drowning cats, huffing, and thinking a lot about sex. It could've ended anywhere, but in order to fit the "movie schema" they ended it around an hour. There's some cool cinematography in there though, and a super cute bunny boy that never talks and plays the acordian.
Did you ever see S. Darko? It's the sequel and it's basically Samantha suffereing the same stuff Donnie did, kinda. It's a horrible movie. There's one guy with a "rash" and you never find out what it is, where it came from, why it's there.
I love Alice in Wonderland as well. I'm sort of disappointed that it's EVERYWHERE now though, I'm almost getting sick of it, which is a shame, because I really used to adore that book.
I can see how someone could be apathetic and happy. They just have to be very accepting and content, which is rare.
Yeah, I never understood how Donnie's death saved anyone else. The vast majority of events in that film were completely independent from everything else. I thought that was weird for a film who's theme was action --> consequence, action --> consequence. Another reason the movie is difficult to understand. So much of it is illogical and even contradictory.
Erin: Wow...sounds kind of pointless...and boring...and weird.
No, I didn't, but it's in my Netflix queue. I've heard it's horrible - that's why I can't wait to watch it. Lol....So in other words, they'd have to have the DNA of a domesticated dog or cat in their genes??
I like the book so far. I got really mad when the movie was being over hyped 4 months in advance. I love Tim Burton too, but honestly, I'm not going to go singing the movie's praises until I've actually seen it. He *can* make a bad movie, after all (though I actually liked Mars Attacks!).
That is kind of contradictory. You would think that would be the point of the movie, especially since it's stressed so early - unless that's the point? Are they trying to surprise us on purpose? If so, those sneaky bastards! Props to them. But I somehow doubt it.
Danni: The entire movie I was just sitting there all, "What the heck?" and when the movie ended, "What did I just watch?"
Oh, my god, I LOVE Netflix. That thing is my hero. Where would I be without it? Bittersweet moment: Getting DVDs for super cheap from a closing Hollywood Video.
Yeah, I was excited when I heard he was doing a remake of Alice in Wonderland, but I saw it, it was good, but Tim Burton isn't what he used to be. I would love to see him make another "Vincent", but I'm thinking those days are long gone from Burton now.
Sneaky Darko writers/directors! How dare they trick us (if that's what they're doing), if not -- how dare they make a movie so impossible to grasp!
Erin: Lol. I think that's how I felt the first time. I was very depressed afterward...I don't know if I knew why though.
Netflix = the most awesome thing ever. Your Bitersweet Moment sounds fantastic, too. What did you get?
I still think he's visually brilliant. And there are parts of it I definitely liked (I still love the Cheshire Cat). I don't think anyone else could have done a better job at it. I've never seen Vincent, though. What's it like?
Danni: I got Clerks, Clerks II, and Coffee and Cigarettes. :)
He is, I won't deny him that.
Vincent is about this kid named Vincent Maloy who wants to be just like Vincent Price (Vincent Price narrarates!) Here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQcBKUPm8o
